Twin Charged JZ?

[Cyrious 0]

I can't seem to get this idea out of my head. It seems like it would be righteous as fuck. Why not add a blower to fatten the boost curve earlier on? An Eaton m90 could easily be obtained from a gm 3.8 and modified to fit the intake plenum. I'm assuming that you would have to add fuel with an safc because the ecu wouldn't recognize the boost curve.

Would there be any other implications to consider in relation to tuning? Seems like there would be a lot of fabrication, but everything would be cheap, especially if you could find a cheap m90.

Looks like a few people have done it before, but there isn't a lot of information about the technicalities of it. The sound alone is dank as fuck.

http://www.dtdirl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101513

[Gordo 0]

You can size your turbo, and not worry about spooling at stupid low rpm, as the blower takes care of that.

Then when the blower starts getting anemic at higher rpm, the turbo takes over.

 

My setup was desinged to work with a T88-34D, which doesn't start making good pressure until about 5-6k, about the same place that my M90 starts falling on it's face.

 

Front mount for cooling the air off the turbo, and water-air for cooling the air coming off the blower before it goes into the engine.

[ChriSOL 0]

it's added weight and complexity, plus the parasitic loss from turning the blower plus the airway obstruction when you could just get a properly sized turbo, twin scroll, quick spool valve, compound turbo, some dudes are fucking with the VGT holset turbos on JZ applications...

 

if you want to say "hey look at me i have a twincharged JZ!" then you'll be accomplishing your mission. if you want to have more usable tq before the turbo spools up, there are better ways to do it.

[Gordo 0]

Yup, 500ci big block chevy....

 

Seen some failed attempts of compound turbos on Supras.

Works on a diesel, but sucks on a car engine.

Quick spool valves are problematic also, as they have to work while red, some times white hot.

 

Mitsubishi had a variable vane exhaust housing on their TF series turbos (had a couple used ones) that were meant for long term service, but the control that made the vane angle change doesn't lend it's self to automotive apps.

It basically had a stand alone oil pump that turned at engine speed, into a hydraulic circuit.

The faster the engine turned, the more flow trying to go over an orfice, and that caused a pressure increase that moved a hydraulic cylinder to slowly move the vanes to increase the angle of gas flow hitting the turbine wheel.

 

And Toyota even put out a Chaser with a twin-charged 1G.

I have a copy of the under hood emissions diagram for one.

HKS had kits for different cars that did the same thing.

 

And if we didn't want to say 'Hey, mother fuckers, look at me', few of us would be doing this shit anyway,

we would just be hen pecked family guys driving mini-vans.

[ChriSOL 0]

the underhood packaging on those cars looks real pretty too, bet you could get a nice FG power bulge out of the JC whitney catalog and stick it right on top of the blower sticking through your hood. then have the piping exposed to show off your colorful silicone couplers.

 

i've seen successful compound turbo setups on GE motors, but the only thing you're saving over twincharging is vertical space in the engine bay, and you trade it for less room on the exhaust side.

 

porsche, as far as i know, is the most successful OEM using vgt on a gas engine. as i stated, holsets have them and for the couple guys out there using them on their JZs there haven't been any ridiculous problems and they spool like they should. apparently harder to tune around but not impossible.

 

QSVs are the jzxp way of doing things because they're a cheap and simple-bordering-on-dumb solution that gets the job done.

 

im not saying don't do a twincharged setup, but odds are nobody here is ever going to get one running so i can safely shit talk the idea without fear of being proven wrong.

[Demesio 0]

im not saying don't do a twincharged setup, but odds are nobody here is ever going to get one running so i can safely shit talk the idea without fear of being proven wrong.

[dzero 0]

i picked up an m90 off a 3.8 at my local yard for 15$ because ive been toying with the idea since i bought my x8. but i know it wont happen for a while, gotta have a running jz first, then start doing cool things.

 

i'd love to see someone here figure it out

 

twincharge is rad.

[Gordo 0]

JC Whitney has nice FG power bulges ?

I'll have to pick one up.

 

Oh wait, my system fits under the stock hood............

[ChriSOL 0]

my bad gordo, they're ABS:

 

all the fucking hood scoops and bulges you could ever want

[Gordo 0]

I want one on my trunk !

[aphxero 0]

google scott pham fc

[lucas 0]

and then do it different.
With the blower in front of the turbo it sounded like a weed wacker.

 

 

 

 

Also everything fed through the stock throttle body. By not having the throttle body before the blower, it was at full boost all the time, putting excess wear on the unit.

 

 

 

when I was thinking about twin charging my JZ I wanted to feed the turbo into an M90 and then have that air pass through the frontmount.

[Gordo 0]

"With the blower in front of the turbo"

 

Bad idea.

A blower can suck through a turbo at low rpm, before the turbo comes up to speed,

But a turbo can not suck through a blower, as the blower is positive displacement, and will only allow that amout of volume.

So you end up starving the the turbo at higher rpm.

 

A turbo in front of the blower doesn't starve the blower.

And when the turbo starts building boost, it is just putting pressurized air into the blower, which reduces parisitic drag to the crank, as the blower starts to act as a large air motor.

 

The boost control signal still needs to be taken from the manifold, after the blower, to keep everything under control.

 

Boost from blower, at lower rpm will cause the turbo to spool much sooner.

[lucas 0]

A blower can also suck an air filter, compress it, and fire it into the turbo, which is apparently what happened to that motor.

[Okidriftjr 0]

I have seen that happen on diesels running massive boost. It always ended up being turbos with the air filter fixed directly to the turbo inlet. For some reason the guys with over sized airfilters fixed to a pre pipe don't have that issue.

Sounds like a cfm flow problem with a filter.

[Cyrious 0]

QSV's do sound helpful, but I could still probably find an M90 for a lot cheaper. The scott Pham videos are rad, im having trouble finding pictures/threads showing how the setup is mounted and how they are plumbed.

[dzero 0]

These are on his Instagram page.

Looks like intake to blower, blower straight to turbo with blowoff, turbo to I/c to intake.

 

And run supercharger from accessory belt? I guess he put alternator where a/c was, and blower where alternator was.

 

Seems simple enough.

[Okidriftjr 0]

Jesus that filter on the blower waste gate is way to small for that turbo to suck through.

[Guy Smiley 0]

Yeah and all of that work got him 400 wheel hp. Having a turbo that size try and pull air through a revolving door is still stupid in my opinion. The turbo is not limited by the engines rpm like the supercharger is, and personally I wouldn't want something with a fixed air output in the way of building boost, not to mention the cavitation between the supercharger and the impeller when you are on and off throttle.

 

I understand that it can be sized appropriately to work well, but either do a twin throttle setup or not at all. That much fab is not worth 400 hp on a JZ...

[Okidriftjr 0]

I think that's why he added that wastegate/bov with a filter. So it opens at the super charger max pressure then the turbo sucks through it!?

Idk. Needed more r and d

[Guy Smiley 0]

Turbochargers are far to advanced now days to care about adding a super charger. How about making the ENGINE more efficient first instead of trying to cram more bullshit down it's throat. All the boost in the world doesn't mean shit unless your cam timing and valve overlap work correctly. I would rather raise my compression and TUNE the vehicle properly with a ball bearing billet wheel turbo charger than make car sound like a SVT mustang.

[ChriSOL 0]

^ pretty much this. but hey, just put a shit ton of pink anodized parts under the hood and people will think it's badass yeah?

[ROBAPHENT 0]

With E85 out there there is no real point of a supercharger IMO, you can get 350rwkw-400rwkw and have a turbo spooling at 2500-3000rpms to 7600-8000rpms WTF more do you want. LOL

[Cyrious 0]

To be overkill...bragging rights...blower sounds... slightly earlier boost

[Macintosh Classic 0]

That twin charging setup on the FC is backwards. It's supposed to be in order of atmosphere > turbo > roots blower > IC > intake, NOT atmosphere > roots blower > turbo > IC > intake. The turbo pressure is supposed to help keep the air in one direction which is a problem of the roots blower... because it's not really much of a compressor.