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Trust the Tuner?


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#1 The Chubby Chaser

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:50 AM

I finally got a single turbo setup for my x90!
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Here is the setup I plan on running:

-Driftmotion rebuilt 60 trim ct26
-HKS 256/256 cams
-JDM 2J 440cc Injectors
-R33 GT-R Fuel Pump
-Gizzmo Intelligent Boost Controller
-Power FC w/ Hand Controller

I contacted Touge Works, the tuning division of Touge Factory in Chicago, and said I wanted to get the car tuned for 350-400hp with this setup. They replied back that 440s won't be big enough to meet my goal. I have read that the stock 370s maxed out are good for 420hp. I have also seen 1JZs make over 400hp with 440s.

So, should I trust the tuner, or tell them they are fucking stupid and have it tuned with the 440s?

#2 JimmyHoffa

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:55 AM

I wouldn't bet on 370s being safe at 400 rwhp. They might do it pushing your duty cycle above 90% and with your fuel pressure jacked to the moon but it would not be good practice.

According to the standard injector sizing calcs you should have 525cc/min flow to safely fuel 400 hp at 80% duty cycle. You can probably hit 400 with 440s, but if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right the first time and at least get a set of 550s for extra peace of mind. It's not like they cost as much as a new bottom end.

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#3 bippu

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:09 AM

If an injector kicks into static (which is a strong possibility) kiss your engine goodbye.

That being said, I would tune it for you with 440cc, I just wouldn't run it past 85-90% fuel duty, and I would set a fuel cut just incase you decided to be a dumbass and try to run more boost.

Also depends on how rich your tuner wants to run the car. I don't like running cars pig rich because it's inefficient and washes out the rings.
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#4 aphxero

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

As a tuner id go 550. As a cheap ass I'd do the 440. But srsly, 440 is okay for 350. 400 not so much. And how are you controlling boost with that setup? What's your ecu?

#5 The Chubby Chaser

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:18 AM

I will be using a Gizzmo IBC and Apex'i Power FC.

#6 bippu

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:28 AM

As a tuner id go 550. As a cheap ass I'd do the 440. But srsly, 440 is okay for 350. 400 not so much. And how are you controlling boost with that setup? What's your ecu?


I ran 380whp on my GS with the stock 440cc injector...through an auto.

Like I said, it depends how rich your tuner wants to run your car.
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#7 aphxero

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:00 AM

Like you said... I never said it wasn't doable I just gave my personal outlook if it were on my dyno. Personal tunes are a whole lot different than customer tunes. IMO, the guy at tf isn't being unreasonable he's being smart.

#8 Guest_DuaxMachine_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

Go to 550s.
Don't believe me, then go to RC Engineering's web-site.
They have a program to figure injector size.
My 1000cc injectors will only support 800 hp @ 45 psi.

And make damn sure that you have enough fuel pump to flow 6 injectors at their rated flow & pressure.
You would be supprized at how many people throw a look-a-like walbro 255 on 550cc injectors, and fry pistons.
A true Walbro 255 HP is bearly big enough for that.

Remember, you can't just jack the pressure, as pump delivery goes down as pressure goes up.
Just look at the flow rates on the Walbro Distributor's web site.
And the chinese rip-offs are even worse.

#9 The Chubby Chaser

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

I will be using a stock Nissan R33 GT-R fuel pump. The RB26DETT uses 444cc injectors stock. I am basing my setup off of single turbo 1JZ setups found in the link below. A lot of them are running this fuel pump.

http://www.japanese-...ory/toyota.html

According to the calculators, I should be able to safely run ~325hp with 440s. That's not too shabby.

#10 Guest_Skitzo_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

Fuck using an OEM, 15 yr old fuel pump, especially somethign from NIssan. Grab one of those Aeromotive Stealth ones. Quite decently priced and seem to be quite good.

#11 Mats

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:22 AM

I'm making over 500hp with 700cc injectors and aeromotive stealth pump.

I maxed out 550cc injectors (95% duty cycle) making 450hp. Honestly i would recommend you going with 550 right off the bat and be safe.

#12 The Chubby Chaser

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:29 AM

Thanks for all the good info, gents.

Skitzo, the current pump in my x9 is 15 years old and still pumping strong. I plan on testing the GT-R pump before I put it in. A part isn't junk just because it is OEM, old, and from a certain company. I have seen several cars run stock Nissan Z32 pumps without issue. The GT-R was pretty much Nissan's cream of the crop. This is clearly a budget build. I'm using a rebuilt CT26 for f#ck sake.

I got offered a set of Blitz 540cc injectors for $250 plus shipping and paypal fees. Apparently they, "flow better than stock 2J 550cc injectors". What do you guys think?

#13 Mats

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:53 AM

i though 2j's had 440?

#14 The Chubby Chaser

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:18 AM

JDM 2J's have 440s. USDM 2J's have 550s.

#15 Guest_LuxurySlider_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

Jdm 2j's are 440
Usdm are 550

#16 Guest_LuxurySlider_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:31 AM

Lol^ had the page up for a minute

#17 Stephen

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:42 PM

regardless of what injectors you buy, invest in taking them to a reputable injector flow tester.

most injectors won't actually be fully equal across the board, especially used ones. getting them tested and then adjusted to match is a really good idea.

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:18 PM

Apparently I've been grossly underestimating what size injector to run. I'm running single gt35 and would like to see about 400whp. I've got 650cc and 440cc injectors. According to RC Engineering, it seems like 650's are the better way to go but it seems like most people I've seen are getting reliable 380-400hp on 440's. Which would you guys go with?

#19 The Chubby Chaser

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

According to every post above, you should run the 650s.

#20 bippu

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

I have multiple customer cars that are running reliably 400whp with 440cc injectors. Like i said earlier, it depends how rich your tuner wants to run the car. And no, my personal tunes aren't very different than a customer tune.

And FYI, i would trust a 15yr old OEM fuel pump over an Aeromotive stealth pump anyday. 3 of the 4 a1000's I sold last year failed. American made junk.
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