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Bag Over Strut vs. Static Drop


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#1 ChriSOL

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:12 AM

kay, so my Megans (bought them before BC came out, never had the $$$ for S9 and I'm not building a competitive car) are bouncy and gay. Like I knew they would be, I was dealing with it, but taking a step back I just realized that it's not a compromise I want to make with this car in the long run. and there's no way I'd get rid of this car unless it was for something better. and that's a short list in my mind.

i don't drift, i won't drive this car on a track, in my mind the sole purpose was to have something fast, comfortable and inconspicuous by today's standards that i could pile my gf or friends into for trips and daily commuting. so something that can handle TX shitty highway surfaces would be better, but who wants to look like a tc.net faggot with stock ride height and wallowing/body roll? not this guy.

i have heard that "better" coilovers or different spring rates would feel better, but spending $1,000+ on a possibility is outside the realm of practicality for me.

so i am a newb when it comes to bag setups but i have been researching. looks like best/easiest way to handle this would be bag over strut setup on the Megan tubes, Universal makes bags that are sold separately to handle this kind of application. I have seen them used successfully on LS400's, Infinitis and other cars with similar suspension setups to the X8. from reading owners' impressions, if set up correctly ride is smoother and totally adjustable as far as height and even handling characteristics...

this would be accomplished by removing the springs, setting the collars to the appropriate height (factoring in the bag's inflated and deflated length) and putting the tops back on the struts. setting the psi of the bag is important because you can get it pretty close to what an ideal "spring rate" would be, not accounting for the inherent differences. it will never be a static suspension but i don't need it to be for my purposes.

all said and done, this could end up running between $1400 and $2000 but the end result would be closer to what i'm looking for in a suspension. i hear accuair has a smartphone app that acts as a controller coming out, but i'm not sure what that entails yet. said it uses a wifi-enabled ecu to communicate - dunno if that means i could only adjust when i'm in a wifi area or what. so until details come out i have no plans to start buying shit.

asking for experience with air here might be pointless, but maybe some of you have some ideas that could help me out anyway. not necessarily married to this idea but it's something that warranted a second look.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#2 Bill

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:41 AM

wait, you are saying your shocks are shot so you're going to replace the springs with bags on the shot dampers? and you're afraid of the possibility of decent coils not being good?

honestly if i was in your situation i'd either fix the megans so they aren't blown (bouncing like you are saying) or buy some shocks and springs.

i'm pretty sure people who think bags ride well just have no idea how they are supposed to ride, these are probably the same people who drive around on blown coils and love them.

not being a dick, just trying to say something like.. do it properly or don't do it. if you go against convention don't expect conventional results.

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#3 ChriSOL

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:54 AM

no, shocks are fine, but the ride quality is just sub-par for coils. i have the 12/8 spring rates on mine, and i have only hearsay to support the idea that spending the money on "better" (subjective) coilovers with 14/10 rates and better damping ability will make it feel any different.

it's stiff, that's fine and expected, but it's also bouncy as shit in the car, at highway speeds its almost like sitting over the axle of a bus. which as far as i know it shouldn't be. i'm not max low height, the car was aligned recently, it just really feels like the damping ability of these things sucks total asshole. but i don't have a big basis of comparison to work from and i don't know anyone with BC's or S9's that are set up the way I would set them up to test. what i have done is played with the megans as much as possible and done some asking around... people are quick to say "megans suck bro get xxx coilover because it's better" or "dude stance shit rides like butter..." but when i ask them why i get the same "stiffer springs, better damping ability, more difference between settings" stuff without really understanding why.

i have literally no experience with air, but from what i have read there is "convention" in the bag over strut setup. there's not really any objective opinion on ride quality to speak of, so i am basing my idea that it is universally smoother than a static setup on the comments gathered from as many sources as possible that went from static to air. granted most of it comes from shit like stanceworks, but that is where the knowledge seems to be regarding this.

Rue doesn't want coilovers, he likes his idea of static suspension to get the height and performance he wants. since he's not tracking the car he doesn't give a fuck about adjustability. afaik there's no shock/spring combo thats worth it for the x8 though.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#4 ChriSOL

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:04 AM

i have been dailying the car with the megans on it for about 3-4 months? now. they have always been piss shit to the point i have gone through the whole range of damping settings and noticed almost no change. before i put them on the car i loosened the collars and reseated them without putting any real preload on the springs, just taking up the "slack" between the sping and perches. i don't mind dealing with it, and i'm not looking for towncar drive over everything at 100mph and never feel anything, but that persistent up and down movement gets annoying and makes passengers complain.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#5 Mo

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:08 AM

I've had mine for 2 years and Brian's had his for longer and both our shit rides near stock.
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#6 ChriSOL

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

yeah, mine's nowhere near that. you're running the same spring rates as me? what are your knobs set to? your ride height looks about like mine, i think Brian's might even be a little lower. any other suspension shit? I have T3 RCA's and everything else is stock rubber shit except the end link bushings that came with the coils.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#7 Guest_DuaxMachine_*

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:48 AM

If a car has the bouncies, there isn't enough dampening.
Either go to lighter springs to match the dampening rate of the magins, or find some different inserts that have enough dampening to handle the springs you have now.
Body rool is a function of sway bars.
Other mushyness can be caused by the rear subframe mounts.
Do you have larger sway bars, or better subframe mounts ?

What you said about the maygun's adjustability is the same thing I have heard about them from other people, almost no difference from heavy to light.
The knobs are there just for looks.
I suggest you pull one apart, and see if a more common performance insert will fit, like the Koni comp inserts that fit the JICs.
They run $200 per insert.

#8 Austin

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:44 AM

basically, what you keep saying is that the shocks in the megans suck dick, which is why throwing bags on your existing shocks is a terrible idea. if the problem is in the dampers, then nothing you do spring/bag wise is going to help. the damper isn't compressing and decompressing slowly enough for the weight of the car. they're either blown, or their par for the course with megans. honest to god, i promise you that if you buy a QUALITY coilover like the BC's, which you can get in any springrate ever for 999 shipped to your door, you'll feel 110% better. i have apexi's in the IS300, and i've got them max low before spring sag, and people ride in my car and are amazed at how nice it is on the highway. shitty roads are shitty roads, you'll notice that even in stock suspension, but at least with good coils, its not busting your kidney's.

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#9 ChriSOL

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

shit, thanks for pointing that out. i hadn't connected the dots that the shit damper would remain in my setup if i just tossed the springs and threw bags on it.

i'd love to get a ride in kyle's or someone else's car on BC's to see if there's a noticeable difference before I drop the cash. again.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#10 Austin

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:54 AM

dude, i'm sure if you asked he'd let you. he also has megans on his daily car. the melon is down right now, and he's waiting on a replacement coil for when he smashed that curb. it might be a little while before that car is ready to go.

1986 KA-T AE86 Corolla coupe: For sale for ever maybe?
1977 Datsun 280Z: 1.5jz aem v2 and holset.

Cressida's are for bandwagoners, real drifters drive pignose s13's with rb20's and xxr's.

RIVALHOUSEGARAGE.COM


#11 Guest_Piner_*

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:19 PM

Yeah I can attest to the bouncyness having ridden in Chris's car. Its almost sickness inducing on the highway. They aren't blown they just flat out suck.

#12 Bill

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:01 PM

i agree with there not being a viable shock/spring setup for the cressida.

even if some powered by max dampers fit your coils, they are just $100 each, they'd probably actually work even for china stuff. if you have a super lowball budget.

wish i could give you more input on how the stance/S9's really are but i won't be driving my car for a few months. i do hear a lot of people say they are really good at properly taking hits rather then shooting you into the roof of your car like most coils.

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#13 Kyle

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:31 AM

Been waiting a month now. But yeah, it gets back together and you can have a go. Only thing is, i have 14/10 rates on the bc's, and everything is solid and sperical. But you should be able to adjust them and get a feel.

Honestly, i think my asshole friend clicked my megans almost all the way soft. I know i pulled over like a mile from toepfers job and clicked them to like dead center just cause, but a couple weeks ago found them dead soft up front. Now im 3 clicks off full firm. Not nearly as bad. Still dont advise drinking from anythin without a lid as i regularly wear coffee on my shirt from my morning commute if i forget my designated cup at work

#14 JoeTheHook

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:14 AM

Did you make sure there was no preload on the spring when you installed? If there's too much or not enough preload with the shock the ride will be fucked. A bit tricky to do with the rear. I had the bouncy and too still problem but tucking redid the rear about 6 times and finally got it right. I'm on BCs btw
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#15 ChriSOL

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:38 AM

yeah, when the coils came i loosened the collars and made sure they were even all around just a couple turns past "snug" against the spring.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#16 JoeTheHook

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

how old are they? try to get megan to send new ones. I believe theyre covered for a year or some shit.
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#17 Jacob

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:33 PM

S9's were bounce until I got swaybars. After that, the only bounce was whole car, go cart hop... and learning how to not gett stuck on inclined entrances. That's my only experience for contribution.
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#18 ChriSOL

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:32 AM

they always did this. searching confirms it's common for megan coils. i should have waited until BC's were out or adapted s13 stuff or imported something else from Japan.

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.


#19 Kyle

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:46 AM

Buy some s13 stances and I'll strip and re-anodize your megan tophats black so you can be s9 broooooomgftw!

#20 ChriSOL

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:50 AM

thinking about it. rue is doing some prototyping of parts atm, so if i sell my Megans and t3 RCA's as one unit, i can find some other knuckles and do BC/Stance.

only prob w/ stance is the wider strut tubes might cause clearnace issues with my wheels. I'll have to go back and look at G's thread.

oh yeah, THESE MEGANS ARE AWESOME YOU GUYS SHOULD BUY THEM FROM ME!

My friend that lives in US showed me CraigsList while we search for my Cressida. You find lots of odd things on that site. Lots of fat US girls looking for a free ride from black basketball type American man.





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